Brennan Responds to Rooney's "Rant"

Joining me now to discuss Andy Rooney's remarks are sports reporters Christine Brennan of "USA Today" and Steak Shapiro, a sports radio talk show host from Sports Talk 790 The Zone.

So I am going to get my referee's whistle here and flag ready.

Good evening to you both. Thank you for joining us.

So, Christine, when you heard Andy say that, what was your reaction?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, "USA TODAY": Well, Paula, I kind of rolled my eyes.

He's 83 years old. He's an old geezer. He doesn't know what he's talking about. And he's certainly not in a position to hire or fire anyone. So, on one level, I really couldn't care less. There are 1,000 women doing their jobs today and we're doing just fine.

On the other hand, I think an interesting question to pose: If he had said, instead of talking about women, if he had talked about African-Americans or if he had talked about Asian-Americans, isn't it likely that he would have been fired by CBS? Why is it that it's OK to say these things about women, but it's not OK, obviously, to say things about other groups of people?

ZAHN: What about that, Steak? I see you shaking your head no. I'm sure exactly what that means.

STEAK SHAPIRO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: That has no correlation. I mean, men play football. And African-Americans play it. And Asians play it. And Indians play it. And women don't play football. And there is no correlation. And the fact is, to try to equate it doesn't make any sense.

Look, I'm not saying I agree with him. I know a lot of female reporters do a good job. But I understand what he's saying. Men want their football from other men. If I'm watching a cheerleading competition on ESPN, I think a woman may have better chance of doing commentary on that because they've been a cheerleader than some guy that has never done it.

Why is that so outrageous? Why do we want to make a big issue of it? The fact is, to make this into a race issue, similar to some of these other issues that have come up with Augusta and everything else, and you want to say, "Well, what if it was an African-American?" that is the not the point. Women are not being deprived of anything.

And men want their football from other men. That is not so barbaric. And I'm not saying that women can't do a good job. I just think he has the right to say it. And a lot of men probably feel that way.

BRENNAN: Then how do you explain the fact, if men want their football from men, that the "Monday Night Football" ratings are the highest ratings in football and, of course, it's a female sideline reporter, Melissa Stark, who replaced Lesley Visser? So how do you explain that?

SHAPIRO: I got news for you. They'd have the same numbers with her on the sideline or with somebody else. So that is not why the numbers. The numbers are there because it's prime time, it's the National Football League, and it's the great American pastime right now, is the NFL. If Melissa Stark was not there, that number would not be any lower. And if Eric Dickerson was there, it wouldn't have an effect either way.

What I'm saying is, some men would prefer talking football with people who have played football. Women don't play football. They've never played football. They have no idea what it's like to play football, just like most men don't know what it's like to be cheerleaders or to play field hockey.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Let me jump in here, because that is a point Andy Rooney made to me this afternoon. He said, "Look, women don't play football." And I'm wondering, Christine, if you have ever felt you were at any disadvantage covering football from the sidelines having not played the game?

BRENNAN: No, absolutely not, Paula. And the reality is that most sports journalists, most sports writers, especially, have never played the game, male or female.

I, in fact, would make the point to you and to our viewers that it actually is more beneficial to have not played the game, because our responsibility at the end of the day as sports journalists, whether we're in print or broadcast, is to the viewer or to the reader. We are to explain the game as best we can to them. And most of them have never played the game of football or whatever game it is they're watching or whatever event on the field of play.

So, to do our job properly, we need to be able to explain it. And if you've played the game, it's a different realm. Frankly, Howard Cosell said it 30 years ago. He decried the jockocracy. The reality is that most football players, when they're asking a coach or a player a question, don't even have a question to ask. They make a comment or a statement. Ahmad Rashad talking to Michael Jordan comes to mind.

It's preposterous. It's ridiculous. It's not journalism. And it's not helping anyone. The reality is, the trained journalist, male or female, many of whom never played the game, do a much better job of telling the viewer or the reader what is going on in that game.

ZAHN: Jump in here, Steak.

SHAPIRO: Well, Christine, I have a lot of respect for. She's a great columnist. And I read her all the time. That is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. That's like saying let's get a political analyst that knows nothing about politics because they're not jaded.

The idea of somebody who has had the experience of being in an NFL game, the idea of a coach, how about that, that knows what these people are thinking, to say you're better off with someone who has no idea what the sidelines are like, no idea what the preparation is like is one of the most ridiculous notions. Why have experts in anything? You're an expert because you've played it and you've had experiences at it.

BRENNAN: Steak, you are assuming, obviously -- and I think erroneously and naively -- that the reporters who are on the sidelines or the reporters in the press box like myself are not doing our homework.

(CROSSTALK)

BRENNAN: Please don't interrupt me.

I was at practice every day when I covered the Washington Redskins in the 1980s. I knew what I was doing. I played flag football at Northwestern University. And I dare say that most of the other journalists that were with me, all of them male, probably had the same amount of football experience that I did.

SHAPIRO: Christine, to say it's an advantage to have never played the game speaks to how women are just the trying to

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Steak, the point she made, though, is a lot of the male reporters covering the game did not have football experience either.

SHAPIRO: And you know what, Paula? I agree with you.

But you know what I would prefer? I would prefer somebody who maybe did play the game, somebody who watched -- who are my analysts? The Boomer Esiasons, Phil Simms, and John Maddens of the world. Christine's notion that somebody is better off having never played the game -- I agree with you. Some men haven't played the game. They don't have the perspective, although most men have played football on some level that women haven't.

But to go with this angle that somehow you're a better journalist if you've never had the experience is a ridiculous notion. As I said, are we better off with political analysts and writers that have no idea, people to comment on the Middle East who have never been there?

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: But you don't seem to be giving Christine any credit for having studied the game, having attended the workouts.

SHAPIRO: Look, I read Christine. Christine is a fabulous columnist. I read Lesley Visser growing up in Boston. She covered a lot of sports and she did a great job. And Jackie MacMullan does a great job. And you certainly can do that.

But the question is, are you better off? No, you're not. I wish I had played in the NFL. It would give me a better perspective. I would probably would have a lot more money now, too. But to say you're better off not having done it -- and the other thing is, why shouldn't Andy Rooney say, "I want my reporters covering football from people who have played it"?

And that's all he's saying. It shouldn't be worthy of this uproar that it's this sexist, ridiculous statement. I think it makes a lot of sense to a lot of people.

ZAHN: Christine, let me just throw out one final thought here.

Do you think women are being thin-skinned about Andy Rooney right now? After all, he is paid to be a curmudgeon. Is it possible that he's just tweaking you? We know he believes this, but he also, over the years, has made politically incorrect comments that have gotten him a lot of attention.

BRENNAN: Well, I wasn't going to come on this show. As I said, I couldn't have cared less about what Andy Rooney said. I have a busy career going on. And to take time out to talk about this is silly, with all due respect. This is like talking about, "Should women vote or should African Americans own property?"

We're there. We're all there. We're going to continue to be there. And no one cares, frankly, what anyone thinks, Andy Rooney or Steak or anyone. The reality is, women are doing a terrific job. So I absolutely agree with you. This is silly. And we would all be better off, I think, as a culture and a society, if Andy Rooney had not said it or if we hadn't played it up and made it a big deal, as we are right now.

ZAHN: Hey, Steak, where did you get your name?

SHAPIRO: It's a dark, seedy story, Paula. If I tell you, you won't be able to continue the program.

ZAHN: Well, maybe you'll have to come back some other time and share it with all of us.

SHAPIRO: Yes, indeed, I will.

ZAHN: Christine Brennan, Steak Shapiro, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

SHAPIRO: Thanks. I appreciate it.

BRENNAN: Thank you.